SBT Flashback

I got a call yesterday from another tech support guy who was at a place that was having trouble with their custom-written application. He had figured out that it was a problem with a FoxPro table, but not knowing how to fix those he searched “Madison FoxPro” and found my name. (Thank You, All in One SEO for WordPress!)

I buzzed over to the place as soon as I could and asked to see the error. The owner was both proud and ashamed that they had been running this custom application for over 20 years. When I saw it I immediately felt a pang of nostalgia – there on the screen was my first professional love, SBT Accounting, in all of its black DOS box glory.

If you’ve never heard of it, SBT Accounting was the Quickbooks of its day. It was a modular accounting system that came with the full dBase (and later FoxPro) source code, so if there was anything the company didn’t like about it, it could be customized. Back then it was inconceivable that you would change your business to conform to the software, so customize we did! I remember one client asked me to change every module so that everywhere a number had to be typed in, his people could forego the decimal point, thus saving a fraction of a keystroke each time (ie. typing 4500 would be 45.00). The way he figured it, that investment in my time would pay off in spades in gained productivity for his 3 clerks over the lifespan of the software. He may have been right! It may still be running!

I was even an Authorized SBT Dealer for a while there, and I think I may have actually made one sale before they raised the threshold.

SBT never quite made it through the transition to Windows and Visual FoxPro and object-oriented programming, and faded into history. Traces of it remain in some Sage projects, who it fell to in a series of acquisitions.

So here we are in 2014 and I haven’t thought about SBT for a looong time, though it still comes up when talking to fell FoxPro devs. This company has been running the same software since 1990 (I can see the timestamp on some of the tables that haven’t been touched since then), that they paid maybe $2,000 for back then. They’re business has made the transition to Windows 95, 98, 2000, (not ME, hopefully), XP, and now has Windows 7 and 8 workstations, but their SBT keeps plugging away. It runs in a DOS box, and on their 64-bit machines they have to run it inside of a virtual machine because FoxPro for DOS was 16-bit. The original developer has retired and moved away. All these hoops and headaches and they stick with it. Why? Because it may not be sexy but it still gets the job done so why would they change? In this age of immediate updates whenever a new feature is added, I find this refreshing. I wonder how many other businesses are still running it? Any of my old clients from the Late Night Software days up in the Eau Claire area?

Do you have any memories of customizations you made to SBT?
Do you still have anything running from 1990?
I’d love to hear your story.







54 responses to “SBT Flashback”

  1. Doug Hennig Avatar
    Doug Hennig

    Actually, SBT (renamed to Sage Pro after it was purchased by Accpac International which was later acquired by Sage) was rewritten in VFP and was only recently (this year) discontinued by Sage. There are still lots of Sage Pro customers and resellers, most of whom are being transitioned to other Sage products,

  2. Craig Munson Avatar
    Craig Munson

    Wow. found your article regarding SBT running from 1990. We have been using the old DOS based SBT accounting modules since 1991. All our forms and accounting databases are on it and it still works flawlessly except customer statement aging of invoices which stopped working correctly after midnight 12/31/1999 (SBT never realized there would be a year 200o I guess.

    Anyway we have to run it either on an XP machine or a XP virtual machine within Window 7. Our tech guy keeps telling us to trash SBT and go to a windows based accounting program as certain doom lurks for dos based programs in the future.

    My question..Is there a windows based accounting software that will recognize and easily import all my SBT database files? OR is there a Windows version of Sage software or SBT that will do this



  3. Eric Selje Avatar

    Craig, here’s are some suggestions from the MadFox User Group:

    – There is an upgrade path to ACCPAC Pro Series, built on VFP. It even supports SQL/Native DB

    – Found this just searching for SBT Accounting. This is a consulting firm offering a known conversion path. I do not vouch for them.

    Notice to Businesses Currently Operating VisionPoint Software

    As you may already know, Sage Software no longer supports the ACCPAC (SBT) VisionPoint product. The decision to no longer support the SBT VisionPoint software was unfortunately made by Sage in 2007. If you are currently using VisionPoint, and would like to know about your options regarding migrating to a different financial accounting software system, please call (727) 421-7314 to speak with Eleanor Mullaney.

    – I believe SBT also had a windows version. It is written in VFP. Should be fixable. Suby, Von Haden & Associates used to use it and support it.

  4. Michelle Liu Avatar

    @Craig: The company I work for is still using SBT as well, but we’re able to directly access the DBF files and get them into CSV/SQL format if we need to do external manipulation (e.g. update web MySQL database with updated inventory etc). I run an automated script that gets the latest CSV version of the database files of interest and update our MySQL database with that information, so that our accounting software and our web database can be in sync.

    DBFmanager does a pretty good job of viewing/editing the DBF files directly (, but there is also a free Python DBFreader module ( allows you to easily convert the DBF database files that SBT uses into CSV or SQL, which can then be inserted into other SQL databases, or MySQL etc. So it should be pretty easy to transfer the existing database files over to another system.

  5. Chris Richardson Avatar
    Chris Richardson

    There’s a company I do contract work for and they still run SBT pro back in 2012 or 2011 they had it running on a dying Novell system and another person told them that they wouldn’t be able to upgrade the server side.

    I’m quite young but I’m not new to IT and I’ve been involved in a bit of everything from development to system administration to information security.

    So taking a look at it I quickly realized that all the system hosting it was is a simple file sharing host, I quickly migrated it off this system that had dying drives and was running outdated Novell software just waiting to be compromised or die in some way simply put it was certainly holding them back.

    I had migrated things up to windows 2008 server, and they worked fine everyone was happy.

    Now I’m being told another person (the same person that told them this was not possible) is telling them that they won’t be able to run the software on newer clients above XP and as we all know XP has hit it’s EOL date so it’s best to not be running it at all especially with the ransomware floating around.

    Any who, I haven’t quite looked into the issue but from my research it seems people on Windows 7 64bit or any other 64bit seem to experience database corruption issues but it’s a hit or miss.

    The only suggestions I would have for that natively is to run it in a ‘compatibility mode’ which I haven’t seen anyone mention yet, the next suggestion is to run the DOS version of SBT in DosBox which I’ve tested and it works perfectly… though I haven’t tested it so thoroughly I could tell you whether or not it causes database corruption but I can easily assume things will operate quite smoothly.

    Maybe one of these days I’ll throw up a tutorial on it.

  6. Michelle Liu Avatar
    Michelle Liu

    @Chris: We were told the same thing (that we couldn’t upgrade our server, or run it on other clients), but I was able to successfully move SBT to a new, powerful Linux server running a Samba fileshare (since the database is file-based). We’ve also been able to use SBT with no problems whatsoever on all Windows clients (Vista, 7, 8, and 10), so I’m not too sure what the original IT tech was saying. No installation of anything on the clients is required either: just click on the Vpw.exe file and it’ll run. (It even kinda worked on a Linux box running Wine). Only thing is, though, since it’s possible to programmatically access and read the DBF files, it’s a bit of a security risk for those files to be there available to anyone who needs to use the program (yet they need read/write access in order to use SBT). There was still this issue before when we were on Windows Server as well; was anyone able to get around this?

  7. Chris Richardson Avatar

    Michelle Liu,
    The simple solution is to do ACL based access I’m not sure if samba on Linux would allow for this but I’m pretty sure you could setup specific users that are allowed to access read or write files instead of allow completely anonymous access.

    My personal solution was to setup a Active Directory Domain Controller then link the windows server where I had the file share and individually grant each employee different access to the SBT share.

    From there I created a logon script on the Active Directory controller to automatically map the SBT drive on their computer, all they had to do was login to the domain on their computer.

    That seemed to be enough to setup some basic ‘security’ around any ‘guest’ being able to access and read the DBF files.

    Though I believe there was various registry hacks that took place in that implementation in order to prevent file locking from multiple users accessing files at the same time, since Visual Fox pro has it’s own built-in file blocking for the write access it would still operate just fine.

    Another solution you can look into is
    Terminal Services RemoteApp ( )


    If you did that I’m quite sure it restricts access to the file system and the user is only able to stream the application’s binary which is running on the remote host preventing them from even being able to locally attack it to bypass password authentication or etc as the application is not running on their machine.

    I always thought of how much the old OnLive service protected video games in terms of cheating in any form, it’s really sad to see it didn’t succeed.

    But my point is that if the application is streamed and file-access is not provided to the system it should be sufficient to protect against most sophisticated attacks I personally have not audited Visual Fox Pro or SBT to check for any other potential vulnerabilities like some kind of Command Injection or Overflow issue… but it should be sufficient.

    Also, the added benefit is if anyone did experience issues with newer OS or just randomly with a single machine while running it the TS RemoteAPP would be simply running on the single server rather then each individual client meaning instead of fixing 20 systems compatibility settings and risking DB corruption or problems constantly you fix the one and all the other systems inherit it when launching it.

    Also I’ve researched it quite a bit being a Sr. Sys Admin with a development and security background has it’s advantages when it comes to dealing with old technologies and thinking of workarounds in order to continue to maintain the technology while keeping it off the network or segregating it to a low-risk point of the network, so yeah I’ve done the WINE attempts though no one in the company used a linux desktop and I’ve also pushed it even onto a tablet/phone via the DOS binary and dosbox and experienced no issues at all.

  8. Mike Ryan Avatar

    We run SBT 3.0 (Fox for Windows) and have been for over 15 years. We run Windows Server 2012 and all the SBT users run on Windows 7 32-bit clients. The funny thing is they all require a disk in the CD/DVD drive to function completely! We have it interfaced to UPS Worldship and have built other manufacturing and distribution programs using VFP 9 that still talk to SBT files in real time. No plans to switch anytime soon. It’s far from perfect, just like everything else.

  9. Michelle Liu Avatar
    Michelle Liu

    How did you go about implementing the real time SBT interface? We’re trying to do something similar, but ours isn’t exactly real time since we’re just polling and checking the DBF files for changes. We’re thinking of trying out using directory/file watching and triggers instead, but I have a feeling that we’d get a lot of false positives/triggers from that, though I’m not certain.

  10. Michelle Liu Avatar
    Michelle Liu

    That’s really interesting….thanks, going to check that out! 🙂

    Yes, I think that would be the most secure method, since filesystem access would be restricted to only the server user running the program. I’ve set up individual samba users and granted only certain users access to the SBT share, but unfortunately, the way SBT seems to be set up is that the user that runs the program must also have read/write access to all the files SBT needs to run (e.g. the DBF files). Hiding the DBF files in the samba config resulted in a non-functional SBT due to insufficient permissions, so at the end we ended up just leaving it as it was…but it is also extremely insecure since the user has read/write access to all the SBT files, which means that as long as they have the technical know-how to read the DBF files (e.g. the Python dbfread library, or a program like DBF manager: ) they can access all the data in the database without restriction, regardless of the permissions set for their SBT account.

    So, yes, I think that the remote application streaming might be a good option to make it a bit more secure. I’ll definitely look into it, thanks!

  11. Jim Gibson Avatar
    Jim Gibson

    You can use also DBF Viewer 2000, allows view, edit all DBF formats and convert it.

  12. Al Bracco Avatar


    I have a client still running SBT/Foxpro on SCO OSR5.0.7. We have replaced server hardware several times to get them out of hot water, but I am desperately to get them moved to SCO on VmWare. I’ve done this for other people, but never with SBT/FoxPro and of course, they don’t have the software disks. I can get all of the foxpro and SBT files over to the SCO VM, and SCO telss me we can get Foxpro working that way, but my concern is that SBT is going to need to be re-licensed. Is that true or will I be able to just copy the files over, tweak and get it running? Any idea?

  13. Chris Richardson Avatar

    Al Bracco,
    As far as I’m aware the license is a file.

    Why not test ahead of time instead of just migrating?, That’s always the safest option build a lab have it tested then migrate.

  14. Al Bracco Avatar


    I’m planning to do that, but in most similar situations like this I’ve been in, the software was somehow tied to the hardware it was installed on, which required it be re-licensed. So, I jujst thought I’d ask first before spending all of that time. You think that just copying all the files over is good enough?

  15. Chris Richardson Avatar

    Al Bracco,
    I believe that’s what I did in the past (Several years ago now) and had no issues with the license being tied to hardware.

    That seems to be a more modern approach, (Or it being stored in registry).

  16. Michelle Liu Avatar
    Michelle Liu

    @Al Bracco

    Yes, same here. All you need to do to migrate it to a new server is to copy all the files + data files, there’s no licensing ties to the hardware or any other tweaks needed. One thing to note, though, is that when you run the program on the client, you need to make sure that the network drive is mapped to the same one the program expects (e.g. A:), otherwise when it starts up it will ask you to reenter the paths for the program files again.

  17. Al Bracco Avatar


    Thanks for the info. This is a UNIX system, so there are no drive mappings to worry about. As for the licensing, that’s likely good news. If the DOS version had no restrictions, then very likely it was the same for the UNIX version. Going to try it and find out for sure…

  18. Al Bracco Avatar

    Just wanted to confirm for anyone interested that I was, in fact, able to copy SBT and FoxPro files from the production SCO server to my test virtualized SCO server and run my client’s programs fully without any licensing issues. This is great news for my client who can now get away from running their business on really old hardware that is getting harder to find when something fails. Thanks for the suggestions and info everyone.


  19. Eric Selje Avatar
    Eric Selje

    I am really pleased to see this post turn into a helpful resource for other people. Thanks for contributing everyone! — Eric

  20. Adam Leavitt Avatar

    Hi All,

    I came across this thread while looking for something to potentially replace our SBT/VisionPoint2000 system. Several employees here, including myself (“the IT guy”), have been urging the boss to move away from SBT for years. But, he seems to think it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread (even though he doesn’t use it), and bottom line just doesn’t want to spend the money to replace/migrate.

    My problem isn’t necessarily with SBT itself – though the bookkeepers we’ve had over the years would disagree – but rather with the system it’s running on. Our “server” here is a WinXP box that’s been on it’s last leg for nearly a decade. As with others, we were told we couldn’t go beyond XP and still serve SBT/VP2K. So, I’ve been maintaining the XP box as best I can, but at this point I’m almost praying it goes up in flames in order to force the boss to move on. Anyway, I’ll try to wrap this up.

    If anyone could point me in the right direction to where I’d be able to serve SBT/VP2K from some newer hardware and an OS that hasn’t reached end of life, I might be able to convince the boss to spend a few bucks and at least eliminate my constant fear that we’re going to lose everything and not have a backup system to get us up and running again.

    Most of the PCs here are running Win7Pro and we use XPMode to access SBT. Any help you guys can offer would be greatly appreciated.

  21. Chris Richardson Avatar

    If you read up we’ve all been sucesfull in getting the software to run on newer OS environments the first thing I would do is a spin a lab/test environment and have someone who’s familiar try it out.

    Beyond that V2PK might have some dependencies on xp but I’ve ran SBT natively on Windows 7 without xp mode.

    At absolute worst case you can run the clients in dosbox and the server doesn’t care what the OS is as long as it serves files and permissions are setup appropriately.

  22. Michelle Liu Avatar
    Michelle Liu

    @Adam: As far as I know, there’s really nothing preventing the move of SBT files to another file server. Actually, I think any fileserver (e.g a Linux Samba fileserver, or another Windows share) should work just fine. Once you move over all SBT files, you might need to set the appropriate user permissions for the files, but that’s pretty much it.

  23. Jim shatz Avatar
    Jim shatz

    I fondly remember being a reseller of SBT accounting software back in the 80s running Ashton Tate DB2 and then FoxPro as the backend. XP machines, big boxes, arcnet serial networks, parallel printers. What a great time it was.

  24. Eric Avatar

    Jim, I bet you mean XT machines? Fancy!

    Praxis Corporation will always hold a place in my heart.

  25. Margaret Duddy Avatar
    Margaret Duddy

    Hello all – came across this looking for a way to purchase the Technical Reference Manual for SBT 2000 software. It’s from the old Dos days, reworked to run on FPW 2.6
    Need to do some customization and client has other manuals but not this one. It is a licensed copy – any ideas?

  26. Margaret Duddy Avatar
    Margaret Duddy

    Hello all – came across this looking for a way to purchase the Technical Reference Manual for SBT 2000 software. It’s from the old Dos days, reworked to run on FPW 2.6
    Need to do some customization and client has other manuals but not this one.
    It is a licensed copy – any ideas?

  27. Eric Selje Avatar
    Eric Selje

    I’m asking around for ya…

  28. Matthew Lefkowitz Avatar

    There are thousands of SBT (and successor systems) alive and running out in the wild. All run on some version of VFP (2.6, 5.0, 6.0, 7.0, 8.0 and 9.0) and there are maybe a dozen of us former SBT resellers who still support these systems and their owners.

    SBT had two product lines: VisionPoint (low-end) and Pro Series (high-end). Pro Series converted VisionPoint data for upgraders, a very attractive feature.

    VisionPoint was, first, the “Series 6” and “Series 7” product before it was renamed “VisionPoint” around the mid-1990s and ported from DOS to Windows. It ran on Foxpro 2.6 (16-bit) for about 5 years until the Y2K bug appeared. SBT patched VisionPoint and released “VisionPoint 2000”, also VFP 2.6, in 1999.

    The next year, SBT compiled VisionPoint in VFP 6.0, replaced all of the DOS reports with true Windows reports and released this as “VisionPoint 10”. SBT sold this until the year 2000 when SBT was acquired Computer Associates and put into CA’s ACCPAC International subsidiary.

    VFP 2.6 systems do not run on Windows 7 and higher networks but VFP 6.0 does so those who have VisionPoint 10 can run their software on current Windows operating systems. How many other 1990s software apps can say that?

    And those who have older VisionPoint systems can upgrade to VisionPoint 10 if they can find a second-hand VisionPoint 10 license. Custom modifications must be ported to the new version but a good programmer with BeyondCompare can do the job inexpensively.

    The SBT Pro Series product line started out as a DOS product but was ported to Windows with the 3.0 version in the mid-1990s, compiled in Foxpro 2.6 (16-bit). Pro Series also had a Y2K problem which SBT solved (after a nasty customer lawsuit) with Pro Series 3.2 released in 1999. Simultaneously, SBT released Pro Series 5.0 compiled in Visual Foxpro 5.0 (32.bit). In 2000, we got Pro Series 6.0 (compiled in VFP 6.0).

    ACCPAC managed the SBT product lines (VisionPoint and Pro Series) from 2000 through 2004. During that time, we got no new VisionPoint releases (other than Payroll and AP compliance patches) but Pro Series was upgraded aggressively. We got ACCPAC Pro versions 6.5 and, later, version 7.0, 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3. These versions added a new object-oriented programming platform with visual classes rather than screen sets and (very exciting) a MS SQL optional backend database. All data manipulation code ran through a “wrapper” class that handled the backend database confusion with front end programming confusion. But it worked and we still had 100% source code so the mods continued.

    CA fell on hard times with threats of criminal indictments against the company and real indictments and convictions of CA top officers. ACCPAC fared poorly during these times and, to raise cash, CA sold ACCPAC International to rival Best Software, a subsidiary of British software giant Sage Software. Later Sage rebranded US subsidiary Best as “Sage.”

    Sage discontinued VisionPoint in 2006 (don’t quote me on that) but kept selling Pro Series (renamed “Sage Pro ERP”) through versions 7.4, 7.5, Sage Pro 2010 and Sage Pro 2011. Sage Pro 2011 was the final version of Sage Pro. Sage discontinued Sage Pro in 2014 and encouraged the end-user base to switch to some other Sage product, mostly Sage 300 (the former ACCPAC for Windows). A few did. But most kept their Sage Pro and still run it.

    Sage Pro 2011 is compiled in VFP 9.0 SP2. It includes 100% source code. It talks to backend Foxpro and MS SQL databases. It has a large library of modules (GL, AP, AR, IC, OE, PO, JC, Payroll, 3 manufacturing, bills of lading, RMA and others).

    There is still a large library of 3rd-party add-ons for Sage Pro for all sorts of useful things (web site integration, shipping software integration, warehouse management). My company has a modest library of utilities for Sage Pro.

    And there are maybe a dozen of us ex-SBT resellers still running “orphanages” for old SBT, ACCPAC Pro and Sage Pro end-users.

    So, if you have an old SBT VisionPoint, ACCPAC Pro or Sage Pro system and want to keep it, do not despair. You can. It runs!

  29. Matthew Lefkowitz Avatar

    BTW, I have the SBT VP2000 Technical Reference manual (for sale). Being a pack rat has its advantages.

  30. Michael Martin Avatar
    Michael Martin

    I just found this site it is great. We have SBT and an in house ERP system based on it running on Foxweb.

    I have the SBT Accounting System Technical Reference from 1993. It is not for sale. The SBT VP2000 for sale how much?

    If everyone needs a cd to run SBT you can use the Subst command in windows to make it think its a CD.

    We have SBT running on Windows 2008. You can download the Evaluation version as a Virtual and test it out.

  31. Matthew Lefkowitz Avatar

    $40 USD plus shipping. Please visit my web site, go to the Contacts page and leave your information if you want to buy the book.

  32. Debbie Lowe Avatar
    Debbie Lowe

    I have SBT Foxplus from 1989, up to this point the programmers have been able to get it to work through virtual machine. I now have Windows 10, the program is working, but I am unable to print. Does anyone have any ideas. It is running on virtual machine using windows 98.

  33. Chris Richardson Avatar
    Chris Richardson

    Debbie, they should consider trying to run the DOS version via dosbox as it requires less resources. But, that’s besides the point the issue with it not printing sounds more so like a VM issue than software unless the software isn’t properly talking to the guest OS. Too many variables for me personally to try and troubleshoot without additional info or being in front of the machine.

  34. Debbie Lowe Avatar
    Debbie Lowe

    Thank you for your answer, I am trying to find a programmer to install dosbox to see if I can get it to print. Thank you

  35. JLH Avatar

    Just stumbled accross this conversation and am looking at a genuine set of visionpoint 2000 and 10.0 technical reference manuals, along with GL, AR, AP sitting in front of me that I never could bring myself to trash

    We created a lot of custom software over the years, integrating with ebay, mobile sales orders, custom payroll, and custom reporting, etc.. We had a lot of fun and late nights working on it over the years, it could be frustrating but we rarely lost any data. I still have a couple clients that still uses SBT but their support needs are very limited.

    I almost miss the monthly calls when closing failed. Let’s clear flags, reindex, and say cheers to SBT 😉

  36. Matthew Lefkowitz Avatar

    They are still out there. I run an SBT “orphanage” and I still get the occasional month-end emergency call.

    Got an email today from a VisionPoint10 user who proclaimed SBT “rock solid” when I suggested he consider an upgrade to something new.

  37. Matthew Lefkowitz Avatar

    Got an email today from a VisionPoint10 user who proclaimed SBT “rock solid” when I suggested he consider an upgrade to something new.

  38. Michael W Joyner Avatar

    @Matthew. I am looking into redoing SBT in the cloud. I want to buy your manuals.

    I am interested in the database structures.

    I was a outside consultant for SBT in the 80’s. I have a small fantasy of reviving it in the cloud based on the same original, “simple and easy” concept.

    Please let me know if you still have your same manuals.

    I am looking for the DOS code as well.

  39. Matthew Lefkowitz Avatar

    I have some SBT VisionPoint manuals including the Technical Reference manual which has the database structures. No DOS code.

  40. Margaret Duddy Avatar
    Margaret Duddy

    @Matthew – did you decide to pursue this?

  41. Matthew Lefkowitz Avatar


    It is not my project. It is Michael Joyner’s. He was looking for old SBT manuals. I have a few of them.

  42. Margaret Duddy Avatar
    Margaret Duddy


  43. Margaret Duddy Avatar
    Margaret Duddy

    @Michael – Are you interested in some consulting work for a DOS/Windows version of SBT (Vision Point)?
    I have a client that is running this version and needs some customization.
    There could be source code made available, at least for the modules that they have.

  44. connectedbusiness harrison Avatar

    We’ve moved a lot of SBT users to our ERP / CRM / eCommerce Solution. Our free Community Edition has all the modules but is limited to Microsoft SQL Express (which is probably more powerful than foxpro anyway).

  45. Eric Avatar

    If anyone reading this wants to do some SBT work, contact Matthew Bergman from ProAmMotors.

    He says “We are currently looking for a way to import orders via a CSV file into SBT.”


  46. Michael W Joyner Avatar
    Michael W Joyner

    @Margaret – I was the outside consultant for SBT in California. If you need help I am happy to assist. I would need assistance setting up Vision Point.

    I worked on/for SBT for about 10 years and know it like the back of my hand.

  47. MARGARET Avatar

    @Michael Joyner – thanks for the reply. Got the client hooked up with Matthew Lefkowitz and he took care of them.

  48. Matthew Lefkowitz Avatar

    Thank you Margaret.

    I did hear from Mr. Bergman independently of this forum and we are talking.


  49. Michael W Joyner Avatar
    Michael W Joyner

    Matthew, I am not sure what space Mr. Bergman is in but if you need assistance let me know.

    Thank you!

  50. Matthew Lefkowitz Avatar

    Just talking right now.

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